!8th Century Watch Identification

[Tee Kay]

Hello, I am new to this so please excuse my lack of knowledge. I have a silver pair case watch with a very elaboratly done movement. Signed E. Newbury - Brooklyn. I believe it to be late 1700's or early 1800's. In fact it has a repair scribe on the inside of case that says "1800" so I think that may be the first time the watch was repaired. Any info on the maker??

[Tee Kay]

Hello, I am new to this so please excuse my lack of knowledge. I have a silver pair case watch with a very elaboratly done movement. Signed E. Newbury - Brooklyn. I believe it to be late 1700's or early 1800's. In fact it has a repair scribe on the inside of case that says "1800" so I think that may be the first time the watch was repaired. Any info on the maker??

[Kate N]

I tried to dig-up some info om E. Newbury, but came up empty-handed.
I'm sure that I'm not the only one who would enjoy seeing pictures of the watch and movement. Perhaps someone else could tell you a bit about the watch after viewing a picture.
He could have been a jeweler, who had movements made and signed for him, or he could have been a watchmaker. If no one is able to provide info for you, here's what I'd suggest.
Go to your local library and see if they can order microfilms of old Brooklyn City directories. I found a transciption of the 1786 and 1823 directories of Brooklyn, but found no listing for Newbury. Way back then, spelling was more of an art--so don't expect that Newberry, Newburry, etc., wouldn't be your man. Brooklyn, at that time, was its own city, not a part of NYC.
You'll have to order by specific year, so may take you a while to locate him.
I don't know how far you are from NYC, but the NY Public Library has these on film. The NYS library in Albany may also have them.
Be aware that not everyone was included in the directories during every year. Another possible source is national censuses, which are generally indexed by name.
I hope that something here leads you to the info you're seeking.

Kate

[John Pavlik]

Kate,

Are you sure we're talking NY and not England.. :biggrin: I know there is a Boston England and many more that you would think US but not.. I'll check when I get to the reference books..and yes a picture would be great...


John

[Kate N]

John, a good thought, but there's no Brooklyn in England--though there are other US cities named Brooklyn--and one in Australia. The name of NY's Brooklyn comes from the Dutch.
Given that Tee Kay is in NYS, it's probable that the Brooklyn named on his watch is Brooklyn, NY--but that remains to be proven.
Hopefully, someone will be able to shed some light on the origin of Tee Kay's watch.

[Tee Kay]

Thanks guys. I will try to get some photos on tommorrow. Again, I appreciate the effort!!!

[Jeff Hess]

I love research.

I messed around a bit on the 'puter tonight and *may* have solved this one.

I hate it when I cannot solve one of these and this is by no means definitive. But I think this may be your man. (Pics of your watch might help solidify the dates)

Could you wtch be from the mid 1800's? In the early 1800's a shingle mill was started in Brooklyn Connecticut. It later became a Blacksmith shop. Then a fellow named BARD manufactured of gold pens and eyeglasess. Then it was owned by a fellow named PReston and a fellow named Edwin Newbury who made spectacles and watch cases.

Perhaps this is the guy.

Jeff Hess

[mch]

Nice research, Jeff.
Notice that the post right near this, regarding a Larrabee watch from Macon, MO, is posted by Mr. Larrabee, of Brooklyn, CT! How convenient is that?

Mike

[Kate N]

Jeff, Excellent detective work!
Sounds very much like an excellent candidate for the original sellerof the watch. I hope that, once pictures are posted, someone can add more details.
The only additional info that I could find on Edwin was that he married Lucy Maria James on April 25, 1824--not much help for the watch, though :wink:

Kate N

[Kate N]

..and, I might add that the Edwin Newbury mentioned as having married during 1824 could be the son of the watch seller.

Kate

[Tee Kay]

http://image.inkfrog.com/pix/bkattic/Picture_001.jpg

[Tee Kay]

http://image.inkfrog.com/pix/bkattic/Picture_002.jpg

[Tee Kay]

Picture 3 (http://image.inkfrog.com/pix/bkattic/Picture_003.jpg)

[Tee Kay]

Picture 4 (http://image.inkfrog.com/pix/bkattic/Picture_004.jpg)

[Jerry Freedman]

After looking at my books, it appears to me that the case is hallmarked for Birmingham, England. The case maker may be Vale & Rotheram.The date mark seems to be from the series that started in 1824. I can't find an exact match but the mark for 1837 seems very close. I am using Bradbury's Book of Hallmarks.

If you have Phil Priestley's book, look at the picture on page 68. The date mark of course is different.

[Oliver Mundy]

There can scarcely be any doubt that the movement was made in England, and most probably in or near Liverpool. This rapidly-growing northern manufacturing town was both the centre of the English watch industry and the principal port of embarkation for transatlantic traffic. By this time very few British watches were actually made by the people whose signatures appeared on them; most of the components, and often the entire movements, were supplied by a handful of Liverpool or London wholesalers. It was as easy for a retailer in North America (or indeed Australia) to order a batch of movements and have his name put on them as it was for somebody in a rural English village to do so. The English-made case nicely proves the point; while English movements were often cased in the U.S.A. from the 1830s onwards, the converse (English case plus American movement) does not occur until Waltham began to export in the 1870s.

Oliver Mundy.