Hey gang...Help on a Rolex !!

[BUZZ BAZARNICKI]

Friends,neighbors,patriots,fellow watch mavens...


I need help!! (OK,OK,Let's not go there!) A good,albeit not so bright,friend of mine (yes I have one..)recently gave me his Dad's ol' wristwatch,which he found in a box of stuff,that he didn't want.


It's a 15 jewel,Timed 6 Positions,Gold Train?,Rolex Oyster(Marked,on double-sunk..sorta..enamel dial,above the seconds chapter.),made circa 1925?? (First waterproof watch???) It is also marked Rolex Extra Prima on the winding wheel.It appears to have a Bimetallic balance and a Breguet hairspring.

It's in a 925 silver,screw-back,screw-crown,wire lug,Rolex case.It runs great and keeps good time.....Seems to be all original and in good condition except for one problem.....I'm havin' a hell of a time findin' a band for this watch!! (Would they put a leather band on a waterproof watch???!!!! If so,WHY???...Seems kinda stupid to me!! But then again,it is Swiss!)

Can anyone out there tell me anything about this watch and/or help me locate a band?(Did I get lucky again?)

Ya all know that I'm a Hamilton pocket watch buff and not too keen on wristwatchs...let alone junky ol' Swiss stuff!!... but....I think I'll keep this one,at least for a while...It's just kinda hard to wear it as it is ..... It keeps fallin' off!!! http://www.nawcc.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif


Thanks for any and/or all help & info.



------------------
BUZZ BAZARNICKI
ANTIQUARIAN HOROLOGIST
HAMILTON SPECIALIST
MEMBER #120851 NAWCC
PAST V.P.CHAPTER # 52

[BUZZ BAZARNICKI]

Friends,neighbors,patriots,fellow watch mavens...


I need help!! (OK,OK,Let's not go there!) A good,albeit not so bright,friend of mine (yes I have one..)recently gave me his Dad's ol' wristwatch,which he found in a box of stuff,that he didn't want.


It's a 15 jewel,Timed 6 Positions,Gold Train?,Rolex Oyster(Marked,on double-sunk..sorta..enamel dial,above the seconds chapter.),made circa 1925?? (First waterproof watch???) It is also marked Rolex Extra Prima on the winding wheel.It appears to have a Bimetallic balance and a Breguet hairspring.

It's in a 925 silver,screw-back,screw-crown,wire lug,Rolex case.It runs great and keeps good time.....Seems to be all original and in good condition except for one problem.....I'm havin' a hell of a time findin' a band for this watch!! (Would they put a leather band on a waterproof watch???!!!! If so,WHY???...Seems kinda stupid to me!! But then again,it is Swiss!)

Can anyone out there tell me anything about this watch and/or help me locate a band?(Did I get lucky again?)

Ya all know that I'm a Hamilton pocket watch buff and not too keen on wristwatchs...let alone junky ol' Swiss stuff!!... but....I think I'll keep this one,at least for a while...It's just kinda hard to wear it as it is ..... It keeps fallin' off!!! http://www.nawcc.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif


Thanks for any and/or all help & info.



------------------
BUZZ BAZARNICKI
ANTIQUARIAN HOROLOGIST
HAMILTON SPECIALIST
MEMBER #120851 NAWCC
PAST V.P.CHAPTER # 52

[Steve Maddox]

Buzz,

I believe your watch was originally intended to be worn on a one-piece "military type" cloth strap. These just "weave" thruogh the lugs, and underneath the back of the watch. The old ones were made of cotton and various other organics, but when nylon and similar synthetics became available, they quickly replaced the organic types.

You could put one of several types of leather strap on your watch, but as you suggested, they wouldn't be able to "keep up" with the waterproof nature of your watch. (Of course, as old as this watch is, you might not want to "test" the waterproof qualities too much anyway!) You could also put one of several types of metal bracelet roughly contemporary to it, but in time, these tend to wear the wires, which isn't a good thing.

The train in your watch is probably just gold plated (I believe all were), and if you clean the movement, you should be careful not to over-do it, as this comes off very easily. Also, you should be careful about it "fallin' off," as this watch predates shock resist systems, and a serious blow will bend or break the balance staff.

According to my references, the name "Ultra Prima" was registered by Rolex on December 9, 1930, so it would be unlikely that your watch was produced prior to that time. Many early Rolex watches were cased in British (often Dennison) cases, and if this is true with yours, you could date it more precisely by the hallmarks.

Hope this helps!



------------------
Steve Maddox
VP, NAWCC Chapter #62
North Little Rock, Arkansas

[BUZZ BAZARNICKI]

Steve,

First of all...Thanks.

Additional info:

The case has the Swiss (standing bear?) hallmark for Sterling Silver,no maker mark or date letter like English cases,has Great Britain patent #260554 followed by the date 1925,and below that...Swiss patent 114,948 with some strange lookin' mark actually in front of the # which I can't reproduce on this keyboard.( It kinda looks like a capital letter "I" with a line through it...I'm sure ya know what I meant...Swiss stuff!) http://www.nawcc.org/ubb/tongue.gif

I kinda figued it might take the "weave-through" type cloth band (I have one simular on an ol' military Waltham.) but some of the pics and others I've seen of watches like this have leather or skin bands on them.(Not to get into the age ol' debate on whether they were original,replaced,or whatever...I realize anythings possible.)I have not,yet,disassembled this watch to C/O - service it,so I don't know the ser.# to get a better feel for the date,but it looks more the early-mid 20's to mid-late 20's than a 30's watch that I've seen.(Granted,my knowledge of wristwatches - especially Swiss- is not nearly as extense or expansive as is my expertise of pocket watches,I admit that.)Is it possible(Of course it is)that the winding wheel was switched,swapped,replaced?If so,Why?....Oh,the stories watches could tell if they could speak!!

By the way... I was only kiddin' about the fallin' off part....give me some credit! I have worked on a watch or two .....or a thousand...in my day!!


OOPS....I hate editing my edit... http://www.nawcc.org/ubb/eek.gif
------------------
BUZZ BAZARNICKI
ANTIQUARIAN HOROLOGIST
HAMILTON SPECIALIST
MEMBER #120851 NAWCC
PAST V.P.CHAPTER # 52

[This message has been edited by BUZZ BAZARNICKI (edited 07-06-2001).]

[This message has been edited by BUZZ BAZARNICKI (edited 07-06-2001).]

[Steve Maddox]

Brian,

Thanks for posting your message! It sounds like you have good tastes in wristwatches, and I wish you much success in completing your "trilogy." If you do, I'm sure that many people here would like to see pictures!

Unfortunately, I must inform you that "Requests for Values" are not permitted on these message boards (there is a note to that effect at the top of each page here). Lots of people make that same mistake, however, so don't worry about it, just keep in mind in the future that we can't do that here.

Buzz,

The 1925 patent date on your Rolex only indicates that it was produced sometime after that date. Usually, you wouldn't expect a 1925 patent to appear on an item produced in 1995, but it certainly wouldn't be unusual for such a number to still be in use in the 1930s. Of course, as you suggested, it's entirely possible that the ratchet wheel on your watch has been replaced with one of a later model, and that the rest of your watch is a little older. Ratchet wheels are often replaced after winding clutches fail, and allow the ratchet wheel to spin rapidly backward. When the click suddenly engages and catches the rapidly moving wheel, it sometimes hammers a few teeth out of it -- especially if the wheel is tempered very hard.

It's hard to say, but the "letter" you're describing stamped into the back of your case sounds like it might be a Swiss "date" hallmark. You might want to check on that.

I knew you were "only kiddin' about the fallin' off part," but you never know who might be reading these messages, and not immediately realize that. I only wanted to provide information to those who might not otherwise know, and most assuredly, no insult to your intelligence was intended!



------------------
Steve Maddox
VP, NAWCC Chapter #62
North Little Rock, Arkansas

[BUZZ BAZARNICKI]

First of all....Thanks again Steve,no insult taken.

I'm aware that an item with a patent date on it was probablly produced sometime after said date...I Guess it wouldn't be before,huh?....I just wanted to impart all the info I could so all ya wristwatch wizards could help me I.D. this ol' thing.

Here's the dumb ol' edit part again...I forgot to mention that I still haven't gotten around to taking the darn thing down yet....I suppose,like most watches,the ser.# would be a help to ya in datin' & I.D.ing this thing better wouldn't it???

As for the Swiss date hallmarks...I'm not sure if I have a list of Swiss date marks(I haven't checked out the ol' Bulletin Index yet.)I'll have to dig 'round.

Brian,

Let me get back to ya on the differences on the Hammies...I'm much more knowledgeble of pocket watches than I am of wristwatches,especially off the top of my head,so I'll have to do some research and let ya know what I find out.

Of course we can't get into values per se.. http://www.nawcc.org/ubb/eek.gif ..that's a big NO-NO on this board...but I would have to say that the "Trilogy" would definitely be a nice thing to have to a collector.

By the way....Wanna trade my ol' Swiss thing for a Ventura?????...Or????

------------------
BUZZ BAZARNICKI
ANTIQUARIAN HOROLOGIST
HAMILTON SPECIALIST
MEMBER #120851 NAWCC
PAST V.P.CHAPTER # 52

[This message has been edited by BUZZ BAZARNICKI (edited 07-16-2001).]

[Steve Maddox]

Buzz,

Your Rolex is too old to have a serial number on the movement, so you won't have to worry about that. It may (or may not) have an "assembly" number, which will be either a three or four digit number on the bottom of the bridges, and the front of the pillar plate, but this is not actually a serial number. It was just to keep the parts from getting switched at the factory during assembly, and is essentially meaningless today.

SM

[BUZZ BAZARNICKI]

Steve,

Glad ya told me that...I'da damn near freaked thinkin' I had a 2 or 3 digit ser.# !!! Man,would I have ever looked/felt foolish!!!

So it's simular to my M.I.Tobias....I mean in that,although it(The Tobias) does have a ser. # stamped on the back plate(# 2120),the other plates,barrel bridge,cock,etc.,have 3 or 4 little notches etched into them,(I haven't really looked at it closely in a while so I can't remember if it's 3or4,but I know it's one of 'em!)to aid in assembly.Right??

Thanks...Now I just gotta dig up a Swiss date hallmark list I guess...Not that it's that important,I think ya pretty much dated it for me,just somethin' to do.....

Just one last question for ya if you don't mind.....Would you consider this to be one of the so called first waterproof watches??

Augh!!...Just once to not have to edit!!!....But,Ya got any ideas on where to find a band for this??? I've called around here locally and even tried the so-called "Authorized Rolex Dealers" ...They all act like they never heard of a Rolex that wasn't a Oyster Perpetual,President,or whatever,and wasn't made after 1980!!! http://www.nawcc.org/ubb/mad.gif


------------------
BUZZ BAZARNICKI
ANTIQUARIAN HOROLOGIST
HAMILTON SPECIALIST
MEMBER #120851 NAWCC
PAST V.P.CHAPTER # 52

[This message has been edited by BUZZ BAZARNICKI (edited 07-17-2001).]

[Steve Maddox]

Hi again Buzz,

I guess your comparison with the notches on the Tobias isn't far off, except that while the "Tobias" may have been one of ten or twenty such watches in progress at the same time, the Rolex may have been one of several thousand.

I don't know that I'd go so far as to call this "one of the....first waterproof watches," but it certainly is a relatively early one -- probably made within the first five to ten years of "Oyster" production.

My recommendation as a source for watch bands remains the same as always: Contact Ron Sabo at: Straps4U@aol.com

The snail mail address is:

International Watchman, Inc.
4301 Manhattan Circle
Brunswick, OH 44212

The telephone number is:
1-800-243-3014 (fax: 330-220-7200)

Ron definitely has the one-piece type of cloth straps that your watch needs, and they may even be available in a few different colors. The cost is very insignificant, but you will need to know the approximate width between the wires (in millimeters).

By the way, you wouldn't have to edit (or at least, it wouldn't show) if immediately after discovering your mistake, you copy the message, then delete it, and repost it again with the appropriate corrections. Of course, I've never done that myself, but I'm told it works. :biggrin:

SM

[BUZZ BAZARNICKI]

Thanks Steve.....I have enough trouble just postin' the message in the first place,now ya want me to...copy...delete...then repost!!! http://www.nawcc.org/ubb/eek.gif ....Yeah right!!

By the way,I got your e-mail and sent ya a reply....Without editing once even!! http://www.nawcc.org/ubb/rolleyes.gif

OOPS....Gotta go fish on!!!

-BUZZ-