Engraving of plates

[johnW]

The engraving on the plates on this elgin are filled with some type of black paint. I see on some watches all the engraving is gold in color.
Is the gold color just the brass of the plates showing through the nickel plating?? Or were some gold filled?? Just curious. My watchmaker tells me that most of the elgin and hamiltons are just the brass showing though the nickel plating of the plates.
Here is a pic of the plates have the black fill in the engraving.
Thanks
JW

http://www.fototime.com/{E597535C-25BC-4803-B081-23C3E7FA6714}/picture.JPG

[johnW]

The engraving on the plates on this elgin are filled with some type of black paint. I see on some watches all the engraving is gold in color.
Is the gold color just the brass of the plates showing through the nickel plating?? Or were some gold filled?? Just curious. My watchmaker tells me that most of the elgin and hamiltons are just the brass showing though the nickel plating of the plates.
Here is a pic of the plates have the black fill in the engraving.
Thanks
JW

http://www.fototime.com/{E597535C-25BC-4803-B081-23C3E7FA6714}/picture.JPG

[Kent]

John:

I believe that it is a gold colored paint/ink that is used to fill in the markings. When its worn out after many cleanings (or just one, with the wrong solution) you usually see the nickel.

Kent

That guy down in Georgia :smile:

[Tom McIntyre]

Your watchmaker is mistaken. The great bulk of nickel American watches have solid nickel alloy plates with a bright nickel plated overcoat. You can cut all the way through without seeing any brass.

There are notable exceptions such as the early Howard nickel watches.

Tom McIntyre
NAWCC 2nd VP
Tommy the JOAT's Web (http://www.AWCo.org)

[johnW]

Thanks Kent and Tom
How this conversation with the watchmaker came about.If you look close at the pic I posted On the word Elgin and Natl. You can see some of the gold color showing through.I asked him why the black was not cleaned out to show the gold color in the engraving and he told me they originally came black filled and that was just the brass plate showing through.I guess it's time to look for another watchmaker..He actually filled in the gold color with black color..So now I have a question how could I clean out the black color and make the gold show.It is an very nice movement and I would like to make it look as good as it can.I think if it had the color showing it would look better..
Thanks
Jim

[Jerry Treiman]

Engraving on watches, including Elgins such as yours, was commonly filled with black (paint?). If this is original to your watch I would recommend leaving it that way. Other watches or grades may have had the gold-colored engraving as a mark of distinction. Many Illinois watches had red-filled engraving. Before you make any changes, try to look up original catalog descriptions of the movements. These often show or describe the nature of the engraving and lettering.

Jerry Treiman
member, chapters 174 & 185

[Kent]

John:

I would leave it the way it is.

Elgin, and other watch companies, used both black and gold to fill in the lettering and other markings. Unless you know for sure that your movement's markings were originally filled with gold, there's no reason to change it. Besides, the black shows up better.

Kent

That guy down in Georgia :smile:

[Don Dahlberg]

This from a history of Hamilton watches written by an unknown author at Hamilton in the mid 1940s:

"Gilt Trimmed watches were made up by filling the letters and figures on the plates, in gilt instead of black. At the same time, gilded screws and regulator parts were fitted. There was an additional charge for this change. Some of these watches, when ordered in hundred-lots, were started through product from the Plate Department but many of them were taken out of the Jeweling Department stock on special card-orders."

Don Dahlberg