Two Waltham watches

[chelmsfordnick]

Hi. I'm Nick from England. I have two Waltham watches on which I have some bits of information but would be really grateful if someone could add any more details. I have looked up the movement serial numbers so have a good idea of their age, but would like to know about model numbers, jewels, and anything else.

1.Movement serial: 8907853 (1898?)
Size 14 (approx 41.5 mm)
Case: Silver, hallmarked Birmingham, England 1900/01. Maker: A.B.

Hands are bronze colour. Second hand missing.

It belonged to my grandfather who died in 1939.Works well and keeps good time.


2. Movement: 11085413 (1901?)
Case: Birmingham, England 1904/5 Maker: A.L.D. Case also has ES 1264 engraved on inside.

Hands are fine blue and silver, according to seller.

Has second hand. Works well and keeps good time.

Bought via Ebay from dealer in Norfolk, England.

A general question: would the case have been put together with the movement in England or in US?

Many thanks

Nick

[chelmsfordnick]

Hi. I'm Nick from England. I have two Waltham watches on which I have some bits of information but would be really grateful if someone could add any more details. I have looked up the movement serial numbers so have a good idea of their age, but would like to know about model numbers, jewels, and anything else.

1.Movement serial: 8907853 (1898?)
Size 14 (approx 41.5 mm)
Case: Silver, hallmarked Birmingham, England 1900/01. Maker: A.B.

Hands are bronze colour. Second hand missing.

It belonged to my grandfather who died in 1939.Works well and keeps good time.


2. Movement: 11085413 (1901?)
Case: Birmingham, England 1904/5 Maker: A.L.D. Case also has ES 1264 engraved on inside.

Hands are fine blue and silver, according to seller.

Has second hand. Works well and keeps good time.

Bought via Ebay from dealer in Norfolk, England.

A general question: would the case have been put together with the movement in England or in US?

Many thanks

Nick

[chelmsfordnick]

Sorry> Should have added that watch number 2 appears to be a size 10 (just over 38 mm).

[Kent]

Hi Nick:

Welcome to the NAWCC Pocket Watch Message Board!

Waltham watches had long been exported to England. According to "Timing a Century - History of the Waltham Watch Company," Charles W. Moore, Harvard University Press, Cambridge, MA, 1945, pg. xxx (that's the actual page number), the London office was opened in 1874. As noted in "The Perfected American Watch," an English catalog, by the Waltham Watch Co., Waltham, MA, 1907, which at the time that the catalog was distributed, the firm had an office at 125, High Holborn, London, W.C. <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">"The Waltham Watch Company does not make watch cases, the manufacturer of these being a separate industry. This company, however, supplies Waltham movements in various makes of cases." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>A large number of Waltham watches imported into England ended up in Dennison cases (sometimes marked "A.L.D."), and with good reason. The Dennison Watch Case company was founded by a founder, and former principle, of the Waltham Watch Co., Aaron L. Dennison. As stated in "Watch Case Makers of England," Philip T. Priestley, NAWCC Bulletin Supplement 20, Spring, 1994, pg. 69, Dennison left Waltham and settled in Birmingham, England in 1872. By the 1920’s Dennison’s company was heavily involved with Waltham. On pg. 252, "Timing a Century - History of the Waltham Watch Company," it says <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">"At that date, 1923, the English subsidiary (Waltham Watch Company, Ltd) was owned equally by the Waltham Company and the Dennison Watch Case Company, Birmingham, England." The active management of Waltham, Ltd., was in the hands of Major Gilbert Dennison, grandson of Aaron Dennison. Gilbert's father, Franklin, was then president of the Dennison Watch Case Company and a director in Waltham, Ltd. ..." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So, your second watch, in the A.L.D. case, fits the description perfectly. I don't know about the maker of your first watch's case (but someone else on this board should come up with some help), but it was very likely to have been cased in England.

[chelmsfordnick]

Kent

Many thanks for such a quick and informative reply! Much appreciated.

Nick

[richard mortlock]

Hi Nick, I'm in Goffs Oak,Cheshunt near to you.
8907853 is 7 jewels size 18 Model 1883 A.W.Co.grade.
11085413 is 7 jewels size 14 Model 1897 Ensign grade.
Visit www.nawcc-info.org/WalthamDB/LookupName.asp (http://www.nawcc-info.org/WalthamDB/LookupName.asp)
Guess we'll meet each other on e-bay !

[richard mortlock]

Nick ,I hope I read the information correctly - can't figure the sizes - but no doubt you can check.

[chelmsfordnick]

Richard

yes, I think I must have measured them wrongly: thanks for the info and the link. I will check.

Nick

[Kent]

Nick:

Regarding your first watch, with the case marked A.B., by pure coincidence, I just happened to be reading a letter from Richard French, a friend in Chesire whose articles have appeared in the Horological Journal. Richard, in his letter dated 22nd February 2005, comments upon a watch: "The case is hallmarked Birmingham 1883 and marked AB for Alfred Bedford, Waltham Buildings, Holborn Circus, London, a name used by the American Watch Company for the cases of their watches retailed in England. Alfred Bedford was Waltham's English manager." These may have been made by the Dennison Watch Case Company, a Birmingham firm.

[chelmsfordnick]

Kent

Many thanks once more. I am very impressed by the depth of knowledge shown on this messageboard and am very glad I found it.

Nick