ILLINOIS WATCH INFO REQUEST

[elginvanguard]

IN MY NEVER ENDING PURSUIT OF KNOWLEDGE I SOMETIMES OVERLOOK SOME VERY OBVIOUS QUESTIONS.TODAY I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHEN AN ILLINOIS WATCH IS MARKED ADJUSTED TO TEMP.AND POSITIONS EXACTLY HOW MANY POSITIONS IS THAT?WOULD THAT INDICATE ALL 6.I HAVE A SANTA FE THAT I BELEIVE IS A RAILROAD GRADE WATCH THAT IS MARKED THAT WAY BUT THEN AGAIN I HAVE A 19 JEWEL BURLINGTON THAT IS MARKED THE SAME ,AND I DONT KNOW IF THAT IS 3 OR MORE POSITIONS.ALL MY OTHER WATCHES HAVE 3,,4,5OR6 MARKED ON MOVEMENT YET I HAVE SEVERAL ILLINOIS THAT ARE NOT SPECIFIC.THANKS FOR YOUR HELP,BILL

[Kent]

If your truly have a "...NEVER ENDING PURSUIT OF KNOWLEDGE ..." than you ought to obtain one, or both, of the two major references for Illinois watches:

"American Pocket Watches Vol. 2, Illinois Watch Co., Encyclopedia and Price Guide," William Meggers, Jr. & Roy Ehrhardt, Heart of America Press (http://www.hoapress.com), Kansas City, MO, 1985 (may be still in print),

Russell W Snyder's Illinois Data Base CD (http://nawcc-mb.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/4316035461/m/2401056421/r/8541060521#8541060521).

That will enable you to look up the grade of any private label Illinois watch and see what its description is.

However, it seems that once a watch is recognized as a special order, or private label, watch, it doesn't really matter from which run/grade it was drawn. The only thing that matters is what was contracted for by the buyer. It was only for convenience (i.e., production efficiency) that private label movements for higher grade watches were taken from runs of high grade watches, thus minimizing the task of meeting special order requirements. Although, in general, the finish and adjustment of a private label watch is probably the same as that of the grade of the run from which it was taken, until one sees the retailer's description of the watch, it is indeterminate whether its description matches that of the factory run from which it was drawn. Lack of actual grade identification and indeterminate adjustment are probably the key reasons why private label watches were eventually prohibited in railroad time service. A classic example of differences from the factory grade are the earlier Waltham Canadian Pacific Railway model 1883s. They were pulled from runs of 15-jewel No. 25, No. 35 and Appleton, Tracy & Co. grades, but all of the Canadian Pacific Railway model 1883s are 17-jewel watches, the exact adjustment of which is indeterminate (although probably as good as, or better then, the grade of the runs from which they were drawn).

Adjusted By Retailer
Another factor that confuses the issue, is that the final finish (polishing of pivots, adjustment to temperature and position, etc.) may be done by the company who had specially ordered the watches. A late nineteenth century example of this possibility is the "Wathier's Railway Watch" shown in that firm's May 1892 Ad (http://photos21.flickr.com/28225733_4401866e15_o.jpg). Although the watch shown, Illinois Watch Co. serial number 1051479, a grade 65-S, is only described by the Illinois factory as being adjusted to an unspecified number of positons (probably three), the Joseph P. Wathier & Co. privately labeled movement is described as being adjusted to six positions. Adjustment to six positions was very unusual at that date. The ad mentions "... our own factory ..." While one shouldn't believe everything in company ads, this does give rise to the possibility that the watch was finished by Wathier. By the way, that specific movement still exists and may be seen as Illustration No. 26 in the book “Railroad Timekeeping,” James L. Hernick, NAWCC Chicagoland Chapter #3 and the Midwest Regional Convention, 1996.

The Ball Watch Co. serves as another, more specific example. Under an earlier name, the Webb C. Ball Co. had watches made by the E. Howard Watch and Clock Co. These N-size (close to 18-size), 17-jewel watches were privately labeled "O.R.C Standard" and "B. of L.E. Standard." Ball literature and Ads of the Mid-1890s (http://photos21.flickr.com/28236001_c3881c123b_o.jpg) noted that the Webb C. Ball Co. did the adjusting. Later, in 1905, Ball contracted with Elgin for 18-size, open-face, Official RR Standard watches in both 17-jewel (grade No. 333) and 21-jewel (grade No. 334) configurations. Elgin factory records show that these watches left the Elgin factory with only the most basic adjustment. The specification sheet for the 21-jewel grade No. 334 notes the adjustment number of 30 in the lower right portion of the page. Elgin adjustment number 30 allows for +/-30 seconds error in 24 hours. At the time, railroad standard watches (which these were) were only allowed to vary +/-30 seconds in a week. The inescapable conclusion supports the oft-time repeated assertion that Ball finished the watches, to their fineness of adjustment, in their own facility.

Although the Illinois references list the number of positions to which Burlington and Santa Fe watches were adjusted, I suspect that this is just based upon the grade description for the Illinois version of the movements. I've never seen any Burlington or Santa Fe literature which states the number of positions to which they were adjusted.

Good luck,