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elginvanguard
01-25-2007, 07:31 PM
would like to know if the hamilton railroad special dial was only avialable on 950 and 992B?could you get a 992e with this dial?

Jim Haney
01-25-2007, 09:58 PM
The Hamilton Railway Special dial was introduced on the 992B and 950B in 1941.

It was porcelain and DS and the 950B had 23 Jewels on it also.There were several styles of these dials.


Later in the late 40's and early 50's the dials were made with Melamine.

These are not to be confused with the early Adjusted for Railroad Service dials on the early 992.

Robert Sweet
01-25-2007, 10:00 PM
Elginvanguard,

The "Railway Special" (RWS), was specifically designed for the 992B and later used on the 950B.

It is not completely clear or documented if the (RWS) dial was ever used on the late (1940) 992 Elinvar. I haven't seen any 992E RWS box labels, but that does mean there isn't any out there.

As with the 950B No. 151 dial (seperate topic), new information appears almost daily.

(Looks like Jim and I were typing at the same time).

Robert

terry hall
01-25-2007, 10:13 PM
and just to clarify dates...

it was late 1940 (oct/nov) for the 992B, and the later introduction of the 950b was 1941

and as robert has stated, no evidence (yet) of the dial being used on 992E... there are some known boxed examples that are very very late in production that have dials marked only 'hamilton'.


.

elginvanguard
01-25-2007, 10:19 PM
thanks,looks like 992e i am looking very hard at has the wrong dial.i had never seen a RWS DIAL ON ANYTHING OTHER THAN 922B AND 950.GUESS I WAS JUST HOPING THAT A FEW 992E HAD THIS TYPE.

elginvanguard
01-25-2007, 10:20 PM
OOPS 992B.................

Kent
01-26-2007, 11:47 AM
The situation of the 992E bearing a "Railway Special" surfaces from time to time, often enough to make me wonder it if it might have been furnished on late 992Es.

Here are the serial numbers of some that Ed and I have in our data base (at the same time, we have a large number listed in the general serial number range with "normal" dials):


2,645,302
2,646,152
2,652,304
2,828,207

terry hall
01-26-2007, 12:20 PM
2647218
this is a boxed example was sold in august of 1940, and had an HG dial on the label

this one also has the original sales receipt dated in august 1940.

it resides in a model 2 case.

I have not observed a boxed late watch with a RWS dial.


.

Robert Sweet
01-26-2007, 01:54 PM
Below is two Hamilton Price Lists, Aug. 1939 and Aug. 1940.

Please note that the No. 2 and No. 10 product codes are the same in both the 1939 and 1940 Price Lists.

I believe the product codes indicate that the same 992E would be used until the 992B is introduced which was eventually Nov. 5, 1940.

Robert

http://mb.nawcc.org/images/imported/2007/01/39.jpg

terry hall
01-26-2007, 02:26 PM
but there is no definition of dial on those ......

and your underlined notation sure puts a knife in a model 11 'theory' for the E ......

Robert Sweet
01-26-2007, 11:43 PM
Terry,
Agree, the "Product Code Name" doesn't specifiy the dial used.

I'm not sure when Hamilton started using the "Product ID Numbers", but it sure would have been nice if they used it in 1940.

Below is a chart decoding each of the 6 digits of their "Product Number".

Robert

http://mb.nawcc.org/images/imported/2007/01/40.jpg

Robert Sweet
01-29-2007, 01:40 PM
The "RAILWAY SPECIAL" trademark used on the 950B/992B dials was registered, Dec. 26, 1939 as shown on the certificate below.

Robert

http://mb.nawcc.org/images/imported/2007/01/41.jpg

Don Dahlberg
01-29-2007, 02:59 PM
To register a trademark, you have to show that you have already used the mark. According to Lowell Halligan:

"To register trade name "RAILWAY SPECIAL" - on June 2, 1939 we sent to the Ball Co., Chicago, 1-911 White B-10 and 5-950L Yellow 10K marked as Railway Specials with a small tag and small metal Hamilton seal. On Oct. 24, 1939 sent to Stein & Ellbogen Co., Chicago, 2-950L yellow, marked same as above."

Just something else to muddy the waters.

Don

Robert Sweet
01-29-2007, 10:38 PM
Don,
Thanks for the nice info.

We now know there were (are) at lease seven 950E (Elinvar) watches out there with the "Railway Special" dial.

Of course, I'm sure these dials have been swapped out several times by now.

Robert